Macro

Episode 40: Macro Market Outlook with Jim Rogers

Ben Lakoff, CFA
April 5, 2021
36
 MIN
Listen to this episode on your favorite platform!

I’ve been a huge fan of Jim Rogers for quite some time. He’s written books like “Investment Biker” & “Adventure Capitalist”…. To name a few. I absolutely love his passion for adventure and investments. Two things that I too am very fond of.

I really love his simplified actionable advice he gives for the market – try to buy what is cheap and sell what’s expensive. And that the main lesson of history is that people don’t learn their lessons from history… it sounds so easy.

Every time Jim talks, he gives SO MUCH knowledge on how to think through markets with all their moving pieces.

Jim Rogers, the legend himself, enjoy.

Listen on your Platform of choice:

Check out https://anchor.fm/investinalts for all the listening options (Spotify, Apple, etc.)

Show Notes

0:00:00   Welcome and context

0:02:40   The Jim Rogers way of identifying opportunities

0:07:16   What is your decision-making process like for investing?

0:10:15   What helps you understand what cycle are we going through now?

0:12:50   What mistaken beliefs are widely held right now?

0:14:51   What if governments can just keep printing money?

0:16:24   How does the MMT will end? 0:18:30   What looks inexpensive to you?

0:21:33   Thinking through the risks

0:24:01   What were the biggest opportunities through the pandemic?

0:28:05   What factors are you looking among the Asian countries?

0:31:21   How do you filter information?

0:32:56   What are the benefits of travel?

0:34:55   Is India interesting for investors?

0:35:37   What gets you most excited in the current markets?

0:36:29   Where can people find out more about you?

Show Links

Jim’s Website

Adventure Capitalist by Jim Rogers

Episode Transcript

Ben: [00:00:00] Welcome to the alt asset allocation podcast, exploring alternative investment opportunities available to the everyday investor. Here’s your host Ben Lakoff.

Hello and welcome to the all to asset allocation podcast. Today’s interview is with the one and only Jim Rogers. I’ve been a huge fan of Jim Rogers for quite some time.

He’s written books like investment biker and it venture capitalists to name a few. It venture capitalists. Jim wrote in 2003, after a three year, 152,000 mile drive around the world. And this book was actually given to me as a present by my uncle when I was in my bit more nomadic travel days. I absolutely love his passion for adventure and investments.

Two things that I’m very fond of. I really love his simplified, actionable advice he gives for the market. Tried to buy what is cheap and sell? What is it expensive? It’s obviously a bit harder than that. Sometimes things are cheap for a reason, but this episode and every time Jim speaks is always packed with little tidbits like that.

Another favorite is that Jim always says that the main lesson from history is that people don’t learn their lessons from history. I love it. Every time Jim speaks, he gives so much knowledge on how to think through the markets, with all their moving pieces. Before we jump into the episode, I want to take a second to thank you for all of the great questions and feedback I’ve been getting.

And you guys really rock. If you’re getting value from these podcasts, please, don’t be afraid to drop me a line or leave a review. These things really mean a lot. Okay. Jim Rogers, the legend himself. Enjoy it.

Jim, absolute pleasure to have you on the show today. Welcome to the alt asset allocation podcast.

Jim: [00:01:52] I am delighted to be here, Ben.

Ben: [00:01:55] So much. Absolutely.  Time magazine has w the Indiana Jones of finance, which I absolutely love. And actually my uncle gave me the adventure capitalist book, and then it led me down the adventure investment biker.  I’ve been following you for a long time, and I love your passion for it, ventures and investments.

These are something that’s very fun to me as well. I also really appreciate your simplified investment advice. By markets that are cheap and sell those that are expensive, but always sounds easier said than done, but yes, I’d like to start off with the process that you go through and finding these sorts of opportunities, how you identify these inexpensive markets in these overvalued markets.

Jim: [00:02:42] Well, Ben, that’s an extremely good question. I wish there were a simple answer. I mean, sometimes it’s just from walking down the street and noticing something, you know, I’ve been doing this a long time. So I, now I notice things that I probably, wouldn’t not, I’ve noticed 60 years ago, 50 years ago, but I have learned that when I see something, I sometimes it makes something click and I’ll say, Oh wait, what does that mean?

And it sometimes leads to new. Investments are new ideas, or I see a disaster, you know, if you see the newspaper and there’s a gigantic earthquake somewhere, we all say that’s terrible. That’s horrible. You feel sorry for people. But I have also learned that disaster can and often does lead to opportunity.

In fact, in Asia Chinese, Korean, Japanese all have a word, which means disaster and opportunity. The same thing. In fact, the character is the same in Chinese and Korean and Joplin. They pronounce it differently obviously, but it has the same meaning, but they’ve been around longer than we have. So we don’t have that word in, in English yet.

We will have some day I’m sure, but that’s another way that I have learned to start. Yes, I feel sorry for people that sometimes can help, but I can also find an opportunity. For instance, if when the tsunami hit Japan, it was a disaster, but they also wanted money. They wanted investors, they wanted people to come and help them.

So not only were you doing. Helpful being helpful. You also had an opportunity for yourself, or if you see a government start a new policy, maybe most many government policies are hopeless, but they spend a lot of money. If the government decides they’re going to do something, whether it’s good or bad right or wrong successful, it doesn’t matter.

They’re going to spend huge amounts of money, time, energy, effort to do something well, that leads to an opportunity. So I might as going to get some money. You might as well, try to figure out a way to invest and you too might make some money things that are new, you know, we, all the internet is new.

Well, at one time, it was at one time it was very new. Well, that was something new and different. That was a huge change that worked. And it led to many, many opportunities, electricity the same way. I mean, you know, whenever you see something that’s a gigantic new change invention or something, there might be opportunities if you understand it.

And if you can find the right way to participate. So their various and sundry ways. To find opportunities. One of the things you must learn to do is to think like an investor, we all turn on the internet or the TV or the newspaper or whatever, but you also now have to learn to think like, Oh wait, is that an opportunity?

Ben: [00:05:57] Yeah, and I I got that from one of your other interviews. Weegee is the word in ancient languages, and I love that crisis and opportunity the same word.  I think that’s

Jim: [00:06:08] Chinese word. Tiki is the Japanese word right off the bat. No, you did fine. No, you did fine. But I’m just explaining that it’s pronounced differently obviously, but it’s written the same.

And the other, you know, they all got their language from China, hundreds, thousands of years ago. So the character is the same, but the pronunciation, because their language is evolved differently. And so they pronounce it differently. That’s all I would say.

Ben: [00:06:36] I was so excited too. I was close. I was real close.

With these undervalued or  you scour kind of the globe for some crisis, but then not everything that’s heated and cheap is worth investing. Kind of the next level is, is to do some research and start looking for some catalyst of change or, or just walk me through kind of your decision-making process when going about this.

Jim: [00:06:59] Well, you’re exactly right. If you find something cheap, It does mean you should invest. Cause it could say cheap forever, unless something changes. Unless there’s something that’s jointed change to make people understand and make it grow and make it obvious, then it could sit there forever cheap and undervalued.

So you have to find the catalyst and I mean, I could be various and sundry things. I know when the tsunami hit Japan, I was already buying. Japan goes though cheap. And then all of a sudden, the tsunami hit, which made it very, very, very cheap. And I started investing because I realized I would already investing anyway.

And I realized, well, I be spending a lot more money to save themselves as they should. And that was something of a canvas, but I’d already started because. Japanese market at that time, it was down 80% from its all time high. And I realized that maybe that would change. But as it’s, the catalyst can be anything.

And, and by the way, one other thing I didn’t mention is when you see a tree growing to the sky this hysteria and everybody is very enthusiastic about something and it’s very expensive. And that too will lead me to thinking about selling it short. Because no tree grows to the sky. Nothing goes on forever.

And when you hear the words, this time, it’s different, you know, you’re onto something. So that’s another way to maybe find opportunities if you, if you sell short. And if you can, if you know how.

Ben: [00:08:26] Absolutely. And I, I find myself these days more than ever saying this time it’s different and You come up with a number of excuses, right?

This time, it actually is different because the internet has changed things in this and MMT and all of the stuff that we’ll get into. But it’s, it’s hard to go back to to kind of first principles and say that nothing, nothing goes parabolic and up into the right forever. And it brings me to one of the quotes that you say quite often, which is what we can learn from history is that we don’t learn from history or something, something very similar.

And I think that’s, that’s very valid.

Jim: [00:09:00] what I say was one of the main lessons of history is. People don’t learn. The lessons of history can be sitting well, first of all, most people don’t know history is I got a all, I don’t understand the lessons and third, they ignore them or they think there’s some, I mean, in Washington right now, if they know the lessons of history, they don’t care because they think they’re smarter than history.

Well, I, in my experience, history is smarter than all of us.

Ben: [00:09:27] Well, I, I think that’s a good transition . Everybody. I talked to says we’re in unprecedented times. But I’ve heard you say before that you can learn things from history, even in this situation of everybody drunk on debt, monetary easing beyond belief.

I mean, what other are you looking at? Japan looking at other periods of time. What helps you understand what cycle we’re going through now and kind of how to prepare accordingly?

Jim: [00:09:58] Well, Ben issue is showing you were always having unprecedented times. Things are always changing dramatically. That’s one of it, you know, you pick any year in history, 1900, everything people thought in 1900 was different and it’s 15 years later, 2020, everything people knew was correct in 2020 was wrong.

Had changed in 2035. So you need to start there that, yes, everything we know is unprecedented. We’ve had many, many, many unprecedented times and in 1999, the wall street journal, which was the largest newspaper in America started capitalizing the words new economy, because it was unprecedented.

Everything was so new and exciting and different. So they literally started capitalizing the term new economy, you know, the rest of that stuff. They don’t capitalize new economy anymore. You know, they don’t capitalize those words anymore, but we do have a new economy. We have a new world, we have a new everything 21 years later, but it’s always unprecedented and always has been and always will be.

Yes. Yes, we have blockchain. We have internet, we have all sorts of things, but once upon a time they had radio and electricity and telegraphs and telephones. Oh my gosh. Remember stories in my family about how people were afraid when the phone rang, I was afraid to answer it. They didn’t know what to do when the phone rang, because it was so new and different families chaired a phone among two or three houses.

Imagine that, I mean, I don’t like when my phone rings, but I know what to do if it rings.

Ben: [00:11:53] Oh yeah.  I really liked that analogy looking back and every time it’s unprecedented times, but I’m curious, looking at the time period that we’re in right now. What mistaken beliefs, what beliefs do you see that are widely held that you think in another 10 years we’ll look back and we’ll just say, gosh, darn it.

We were, we were just silly.

Jim: [00:12:14] Print and spend and borrow and spend. I mean, everybody there, I, I cannot find, I can find very few people who question and United United States, we have spent trillions with a T of new debt in the last six months. America is already the largest debtor nation in the history of the world.

I can see no one who questions that. I was once being interviewed by somebody and, and as well. I mean, I worry about this. I worry about my children. And she started talking about what about all of blah, blah, blah, blah. I said, yeah, I understand. But I’m worried about my children. Don’t you care about my children?

She thought I was some kind of heartless cruel person because I was questioning the staggering amounts of money that will being borrowed, printed and spent not many people, even what would raise an eyebrow. And it’s not just to us. I mean, the bank of Japan, a guy goes to work every morning, princess. He says unlimited, that’s his word?

Unlimited amounts of money and bought stocks and bonds and ETS. I mean, nobody’s questioning the head of the bank of Japan, by the way I bought Japanese ETFs too. He’s got more money than I do. He’s going to buy ETFs. I’m going to buy Japanese ETS, but I don’t see I’m in a few nuts like me who say, well, wait a minute, wait a minute.

What about my kids? But what about me? I missed a good time to be over. It’s not a good time to be young in many countries in the world. But nobody questions that is kids ringing endorsement all over, all over the world.

Ben: [00:13:54] It is  presumably you’re, you’re not a fan of MMT. I’ve heard you call it more money today, which I think is a much better word for the acronym, but I mean, what if we’re wrong?

What if you can just keep printing money? Do you, do you see a scenario like that playing out? And if so, how would that work?

Jim: [00:14:17] How Ahluwalia. Hallelujah then my goodness. And, and, and can you also make me a full hundred hitter in baseball? And then I could be a professional. I could become a PA I could play for the next, I could play basketball.

If all we have to do is just make it magic. Oh my gosh. Ben signing day exciting day. I don’t, we never have to worry about money again. You can make me a basketball player, professional. This is great. Great, great, huge. If I’m wrong and if we’re all wrong, if history is right, but all you have to do is print more money than how long are you?

How old are you? I should tell my daughters. No worries. Don’t worry. Don’t worry.

If you’re not first in your class at college, don’t worry. No full problems in the future.

Ben: [00:15:13]  I’ve heard you on the grant Williams podcast, the end-goal game, which is a terrific interview, what is the end game here? The potential end of Fiat currency, as we know it, I mean, it’s not just the U S which is the global reserve currency.

It’s every fear currency,  massive loss of trust. I’ve every scenario I go through kind of. Ends and pitchforks and torches. Hopefully you have a little bit better view on it, but how, how does this end?

Jim: [00:15:40] Well, I don’t know if I have a better view or not. I mean, who knows? You should watch all tests that allocation he’ll give you the answer.

The way, the more money today people say it will end. His happy days are here again. We don’t have to worry. You know, when we have problem with just print some more money, spend here, spend it there and everything will be fine. That’s what they say. I mean, mankind has been around for hundreds, thousands of years, trying to sort all this out.

They say the end game is okay now we’ve got, but by the way, Mr. Mark said, when, whenever that is there men, many mew theories in, in, in world history Mr. Marks had one wonderful theory for a long time. A lot of people tried it and liked it. I mean, now we all know it doesn’t work. Nobody wants to be a Marxist anymore, or very few wanting to be a Marxist anymore, but doesn’t mean they won’t try magic money today, more money today.

And in my work for a while, it, in fact it should work for awhile. If you just keep printing and spending it and printing and spending. And, and there’s no restraint, no bond market, no. Anything to restrain you on immune is going to continue to recover. The financial markets will continue to recover. That’s the end game.

Until it ends, you know, something’s too good to be true if something’s too good to be true, it’s usually not true. In my view, this is too good to be true. Well, we’ll find out the more money today. People say, no, no, I’m wrong. Totally wrong. You just don’t understand everything is going to be okay. All right.

Well, this is a good time to be different this time. It’s different. This time it’s different. This time it’s different. It’s different.

Ben: [00:17:27] You’ve built your career on buying these things that are unloved and inexpensive. And I know you say multiple times, there’s no easy answers and no hot tips, but thinking about these things as asymmetric back bets what are you, what are you looking at these days?

Kind of viewing things through that lens. What, what looks inexpensive to you?

Jim: [00:17:48] Well, it is, I look around the world Bonds are in a bubble nearly everywhere. Interest rates have never been this low in recorded history, never in the world. So that’s clearly not a bargain. It is a bubble. If you ask me, takes a while for bubbles to pop, pop, usually property in many places is obviously a bubble or has been a bubble London, Seoul.

Many parts of the us. I don’t think people are racing around desperate, unloading their houses. I can remember at times in New York, people would give you the keys to their apartment to get out of it. It would send the keys to the bank and say, I cannot pay the mortgage you had here’s the key. Just get me out, get me out, get me out.

These were very, these are apartments that are now worth millions and millions of dollars. So that’s not the case with property and much of the world now stocks. Well, did you know stocks in the U S and some places are making all time highs. Apple never goes down. Everybody knows that it’s different with Apple and it’s going to go up forever because it’s, it’s different this time.

You just don’t understand. So stocks are certainly not the only asset class I can see around the world. That’s cheap or commodities. I mean, sugar is down 80% from its all time. High. Silver was down 50% from its all time I go on and on assets. Commodity of all the major asset classes that I know.

The only one I see that is clearly very cheap or commodities doesn’t mean they have to go up that mean it can’t go down, but that is the cheapest place I know. I mentioned the Japanese stock market is down 30% Chinese stock market down. What, 80% from its all time high while Chinese shares recently Russia’s hated.

They bought a Russian shipping company recently. There are things that are not expensive. Doesn’t mean I’m going to make money, but there certainly are things that are not expensive, especially commodities as a class.

Ben: [00:19:57] Yeah, and that makes a lot of sense, but just jumping into like one of those sugar, for example, I can see, I mean, the market’s made up of buyers and sellers, right.

If it’s been battered down, clearly there’s people that are bearish on it, but thinking that it’s unloved and undervalued. Assumes that it will kind of revert back to the mean, but with sugar, for example, like there’s these macro trends of people trying to be healthier, it’s been, you know, potentially outlawed.

How do you think through like the other side, the downside risk associated with taking on these unloved plays?

Jim: [00:20:36] Well, Ben you’re right. It’s different this time. That’s why sugar is so cheap, 80%, right? Well maybe sugar’s never going to go up. Maybe we’re never going to put, you know, sugar in our coffee.

I don’t put sugar in my coffee now. But who knows? Maybe someday we will, again maybe someday kids will have sugar. At Halloween I don’t know. I know sugar’s better around hundreds of years and if nothing else, the fact that it’s down so much means that production is starting to decline. I mean, remember markets are made up of supply and demand.

So if supply goes down, even if demand is not go up, you would still have a bull market, you know, about lead. I don’t know if you know, but lead used to be in paint that used to be in, in gasoline, you know, leaded gasoline was much better, blah, blah, blah. Led paint was much better. Blah, blah, blah. Well, then they, then they decided, well, let us not good for us.

And they outlawed led and paint isolate and other things. When I, you would think it led would be an absolute unmitigated disaster. It’s two largest markets got wiped out there’s later, it was led was making all time highs because there was no lead. Nobody opened, led mines, led mines closed. So you can have a bull market even without a lot of demand.

If there’s no supply, is that going to happen to sugar? I have no idea. You know it may stay down here forever. It’s different this time.

Ben: [00:22:23] That makes a lot of sense. And I shouldn’t just have a punch clock every time I say that it’s different this time, especially these days, but I’m thinking, thinking about right now going back to the, the Asian language way G in Chinese crisis and opportunity right now, this is being recorded in December it’s it’s, it’s a crisis.

It’s a global pandemic lockdowns all over the place. Stock markets at all time high. I mean, looking forward, we’re going to look back and say, w what were the, the gigantic opportunities that were staring at, at us during these times? How does, how does one start thinking about this? How do you, how do you think through those?

Jim: [00:23:04] I do know that throughout history

geography has shifted, you know, a hundred years ago. United Kingdom was most single. It was a number one country in the world. There was no number two. Well, I mean, UK is still there, but it’s nothing like what it was a hundred years ago. In fact, in 1976, he went bankrupt. Bankrupt IMF had to fly into Heathrow airport to bail them out.

This was a country which had been the largest richest country in the world 50 years before. I know that always happens. I know what it is happening again. What I’m trying to figure out is where the shift is. I certainly can see that the shift is to Asia. It does not mean Asia won’t have serious problems.

You’re going to see bankruptcies in China, et cetera, going forward. Just so we did an America as we began emerging as a number one country, I’m trying to figure out where. I would like to find countries that are not deep in debt and that are not adding lots of debt and see if that might be a place where something will emerge.

I mean, is it Vietnam? Is it Korea, South Korea has dead, but nobody will lend money to North Korea. I would suspect the Korean peninsula wants the 38th parallel open just going to be a very shining place. But I am looking, I don’t know. Is it. Ethiopia could well be is it Columbia? Probably Columbia is on my list and probably should be higher on my list.

I am looking for where the world is moving. I know where it’s been. I know that know France was an unbelievably important place if you’re 60 years ago and it’s still there and it’s still important. But what it was a hundred years ago, 200 years ago, Mr. Napoleon is gone and he’s not coming back. You know, Mr.

Otero is not coming back as smart as he was. So I’m trying to figure out where I know where the world has been. Now I’ve got to figure out what was that hockey player’s name? The guy from Canada. Great. Gretzky. Great. Yeah. You know, he’s he said, you know, if you’re going to be a great hockey player, you figured out where the puck is going.

Not where it is not where it’s been. That’s what I’m trying. I’m not, I’m not gonna, I’m not going to be a good hockey player. I’ll if the MMT comes true, maybe I’ll be a hockey player too. You’ll have ’em all I’ll have, I’ll be busy all year round. Oh, I see. Since there’s sports on that, I can figure out where it’s gone.

I’m trying to figure out where it’s going.

Ben: [00:25:47] Yeah on that topic. I mean, you, you called long ago that China would be Glo a growing superpower in one of the larger, more powerful countries in the world. I completely agree with that view. I lived in Bangkok actually for four years, spent a lot of time in Singapore as well, but the growth there and the.

Breakneck speed, move fast, break things. We’re catching up with the rest of the world. Kind of mentality of all of Asia just blows me away. I mean, I, I leave for six months. I come back. There’s a new mall, there’s a new condo. It’s they’re moving so quickly. But so now you’re looking at these countries thinking their their debt.

What other factors are you looking at with these  Asian countries?

Jim: [00:26:32] Well with all, any country, you have to look at the debt. You have to look at the demographics. I mean, Japan is one of my favorite countries in the world, but then the population been declining for 10 years and there’s, I don’t see any prospect that is going to stop declining.

The debt has been skyrocketing and continues to sky rise. I don’t see any that indicate if you’re 10 years old in Japan, you better move. Or you better learn self-defense because when or two years from now, they’re going to be very serious problems in Japan. If there’s still a Japan. I mean, I don’t like it cause I love Sue went along.

We had our sushi in 50 years. I mean, but I cannot, these are the things you have to consider. That’s it. I I’m long Japan at the moment

Ben: [00:27:26] surprises me very bearish long-term outlook, but a bullish midterm, I guess,

Jim: [00:27:33] midterm, you know, next week, next month, I’m bullish at the moment who dongs, who knows how well, if the Japanese market’s down 30% from where it was 30 years ago, the Japanese market has been declining for 30 years.

That’s not a typo. It wouldn’t surprise me if the Japanese market doesn’t make all time highs and the next year or two, cause he’s printing so much, this is not a prediction. I’m just suggesting that it might happen because of what’s happening with the bank of Japan. I have no idea. I may be launch Japan for a day a year.

I do not know. But back to your question, you have to consider demographics. You have to consider the debt. Situation in the country, you have to consider government policies. You have to understand the basic understanding. I mean, Pakistan, if the price of cotton collapses is not good for Pakistan, well, you need to understand things like that.

If the price of cotton collapses, America doesn’t care, but in Pakistan, they care a lot about the price of cotton. You need to understand things like that. Government policies are they changing? Tom’s governments do everything they can to encourage investment. The governments are anti investment. So it depends on, there are lots and lots of things.

I wish that were a simple answer. I remember when I was professor people always wanted, I kept saying to them, there is no simple answer. You want me to say turn to page 37. And there’s the answer, or you ought to say Josh read chapter three and you’ll have all the, I wish I wish I wait, but now I am empty may based on all

Ben: [00:29:19] that, it really is different.

This MMT will solve everything. you’re incredibly knowledgeable. Yes. There’s no easy answer, but the amount of. The amount of information that you know of, of all these different markets at any given time is just baffling. For you, how do you ingest information? There’s, there’s an onslaught of information out there.

How do you kind of piece through and figure out what to, what to under what to dig in a little bit deeper? Where do you get your source of information for this stuff?

Jim: [00:29:50] I get my source of information, all asset allocation. Where do you get yours? Doesn’t everybody from, from John

Ben: [00:29:58] Rogers. There’s just this circle, right?

Jim: [00:30:02] No, I read it a lot. I’m interested in, and these are the things that interests me a lot. If you ask me about the national basket, the NBA, I could tell you nothing. I don’t think I could name a single player, but there are lots of people who know enormous amounts about the NBA. And I know zero. I know Pakistan needs cotton because I’m interested in, in, in the world and things like that.

But I know zero. Yes. Asked me about football. I could not tell you who’s on top of the football leagues in Europe, much less America, American football. I don’t know about American football or, or other football. But I happen to know about cotton in Pakistan.

Ben: [00:30:51] That makes sense. Pivoting slightly.

I’ve heard that you said that many times about the benefits of travel and through your books and I’ve followed your adventures widely, but I’ve also heard that the one place you’d recommend for people to visit is India. Do you still feel the same?

Jim: [00:31:09] Well, India is an extraordinary place to visit.

It, it is you walk down the street in India. It’s a total sensory feast. The man, the women, the man-made sites, the natural sites, the richest, the poverty, the dress, everything. It’s just unbelievable century fees here. Scores of ethnic groups, religious groups, linguistic groups, historic groups, just support and a place, you know China used to be that way.

I mean, they destroyed a lot during the cultural revolution and other things. And China doesn’t have the dozens of ethnic groups and linguistic groups that that India does. So it just it’s, it’s astonishing. To visit India. Women are always winning the beauty contest. A lots of plenty smart women, smart man.

Oh, this amazing place. I mean, it’s the world’s worst bureaucracy, but that part of what makes it amazing. That’s it’s interesting to see. Indians learned bureaucracy from the English. Then they took it to heart. Pain is only Indians can do instant message, make everything better or worse, depending on how you look at it.

Ben: [00:32:25] It’s true. That India has a very, very intense place. I actually had a Jim Rogers  adventure there. I drove a, took, took from the border of Pakistan to the border of Bangladesh. All the way across. Yeah. And it was a fantastic way to see the country, but it’s, it’s intense. Like you said, it’s an assault on every sense.

Both good and bad. From an investment perspective, someplace like India, even though it’s one of your favorite places to travel. Not that’s interesting from an investment perspective

Jim: [00:32:54] at times it has been yes. At times I’ve invested in India. I don’t think I’ve ever been shorted in here. No, I have. But at times I’ve invested in, you have nothing there now and just built up a lot of debt, which they don’t like to talk about.

And don’t publicize. If the right, if the market is down enough or if something happens, sure. Every place is on my list. If something happens.

Ben: [00:33:17] Well, I, I want to be aware of your time and I want to just end with one last question on more of a a happier, upbeat note. But what, what within the markets gets you most excited?

And why.

Jim: [00:33:30] Well, what gives me most excited is when there’s an opportunity. I mean, always, you know, I love when they bring a bell and say, buy this Oh, I don’t know. Periodically I stumble across something that I say, wow, look at that. I mean, right now is Russian shipping company, which is a disaster excites me a lot.

But it just depends Silver. What a silver, not now, not buying silver now, but I’ll buy more silver and gold eventually. I don’t know. These are old excitements. I’m looking for new excitements. Maybe I should watch more of alt asset allocation to find something to excite me.

Ben: [00:34:09] Well, you hopefully we’ll uncover a few of those, Jim.

It’s been truly an honor to have you on today. Where can my listeners find out more about you or where, where would you like to send them?

Jim: [00:34:19] Then I don’t have anything to sell. I mean, I read my books. I don’t, I don’t, I don’t have anything to sell. Sorry. I do have a website, but that just gives my public schedule.

Not much public schedule these days because the world is closed down. You know, I, my. Well, I’m bullish on commodities. So there are commodity listed products, ETFs you can buy with that. That’s not just cause I haven’t even really shown on the agriculture and other commodities right now. I don’t have anything to sell.

Ben. Sorry, have you got

Ben: [00:34:56] bullets on it? The price will go up and then, then you’ll be happy right

Jim: [00:35:01] by some of them, because I see some guy on the internet, they’re making a very serious mistake. Very well, if it’s all tasks set allocation, perhaps, but otherwise do not, do not see some guy on the internet or the TV or the newspaper and do what he or she does do not under any circumstances.

It’s a fast way to the poor house

Ben: [00:35:31] present. Well, really, really appreciate it. Thank you so much, Jim.

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Ben Lakoff is an entrepreneur and finance professional. He has developed strong global finance experience through 10 years of international assignments in the US, Brazil, Afghanistan, Southeast Asia, Czech Republic and through the award of his Chartered Financial Analyst (CFA) certification.